torque converter slip actual vs desired

Comments may be moderated. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. but the question is when i put my buddys obd code finder on it. For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. Some persist for only a few minutes, or until you close your browser (or other user agent); others may remain in your browser (or other user agent) as long as your individual settings permit. Your torque converter is full of fluid, and its jobis to act as a hydraulic pump and acts as a coupling between the engine and the transmission. You've now repaired or replaced your torque converter if it exhibited any of the above common torque converter problems. I cant imagine the hours of work which you must have put into understanding these various transmissions, to say nothing of writing up a description that a simpleton like me could (mostly) understand. You can't be sure the slipping or shuddering has anything to do with your torque converter until you check your fluid levels. I drove only sticks for years by choice. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. I think you probably have some time as long as you dont pound on it. For more information, please see our To avoid stalling or lugging the engine, the clutch would automatically disengage if road speed fell below 13 mph (21 km/h). The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. However, the cookie may remain on your device for as long as the settings of your browser (or other user agent) permit. In order to get a realistic value, use: Your finish line MPH (from ET slip) Your finish line RPM. I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. To learn more about the specific cookies used and/or to fine-tune your available choices, click "Privacy Preferences" at the right. A tracking pixel, sometimes known as a web beacon, is a tiny image file that loads from a remote server; it's a type of embedded content (as is the button itself, which loads from the same domain). For a drag-race car, the cost of this additional slippage is worth the price, but for a street car it creates other problems. Most street torque. What to Do to Fix Your Contaminated Transmission Fluid. Torque Converter Engaged while pulling??? The one-way stator clutch (fuchsia) allows the stator (light blue) to freewheel in the direction of engine rotation, but reverse rotation locks the stator against the fixed stator shaft (dark gray), providing torque multiplication under some conditions. I feel better and it makes more sense now. They may persist for up to two years. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. If you change certain aspects of the site's appearance using the accessibility sidebar, it may set these cookies to manage and remember your settings. (For this cookie, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) I am however, now chasing some unusual engine noises which are a different issue entirely. The torque converter, with its multiple elements, is being manufactured with an eye towards the future. JavaScript is disabled. one of the strange quirks of these transmissions is if they are a quart or so low it will feel like the torque converter does not disengage at stop. I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. register to join our community I don't think they had this in 2011 however. The payment button in the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box (and similar payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the administrative dashboard, which is not normally accessible except to logged-in administrative users) contains embedded content served by PayPal services. Really bad shuddering under acceleration, etc. The first automatic transmissions employed what was called a fluid coupling to connect the crankshaft with the transmission. Stall speed is measured in the car by applying the brakes and revving the engine in First gear against the brakes. In my limited experience, a failing converter in this transmission will start to throw off a lot of black carbon and cause the fluid to rapidly darken. Primary symptom includes a "rumble strip" like sound randomly while driving at speeds of about 40+. All engine power flows through the mechanical clutch directly to the input shaft. There was also a kickdown mechanism that allowed the driver to disengage the clutch at road speeds between 13 and 56 mph (21 and 90 km/h) by flooring the accelerator, allowing the torque converter to again multiply torque. A manufacturer's torque-converter rating is generally expressed as an rpm range. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! (author diagram). The iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec-hb-login-xx cookie, which helps to protect the site against "brute force" hacking attempts; that cookie normally expires in about one hour. of course it could be logging falsely No, that just means its not locking, or the pid isn't reading right. Hence, you've commanded your torque converter every time your car shifted gears. but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. The issues of slippage and heat are the main reasons that street converters should be approached with a serious amount of compromise when it comes to stall speed. Locking the converter with a scan tool bypasses the tune and verifies everything mechanical is in order. When the two problems are combined, it could mean your torque converter is failing. if I'm seeing "desired TC slip" of 1020rpm at all times wouldnt that pretty much guarantee the TC would never lock? Over 10 RPM is real slip. Your email address will not be published. I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm not familiar with your specific transmission. Torque converter problems have a high impact on your car's ability to function and drive. In this installment of Ate Up With Motor, we take a look at how GM, Ford, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker have approached this slippery problem from 1949 through the late eighties. abs thank you for posting your experience here. It's not more specific because stall speed is highly dependent upon engine torque. I believe it is labeled as TQSLIP(rpm) under Ford Specific PID's. Cookies whose names begin with "_ceg" are associated with the Crazy Egg web analytics service (which is subject to the Crazy Egg Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy). It is the lack of fluid that causes overheating, slipping, or shuddering. * Various services, specials, or coupon offers are available at participating locations only. As you can see I was experiencing multiple issues, all of which were exacerbating the clutch slippage and/or shuddering issue. It does drove different than a lock up. mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! Cookie Notice Think of it this way, a well built converter, 10" may slip 4-5%, if yours slips 6-7% higher, you are baking the fluid, cooking the band, and compromising the clutches, and giving up mph and ET. A malfunctioning torque converter can have a shudder that comes from the transmission. With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed. The end result is the torque converterisn't able to transferthat power completely and efficiently from the engine to the transmission. I've got reason to believe my torque converter is going out, which readings can I look at to determine if that's actually my problem? Only lasts from .5 seconds to 2 seconds. If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. The cookies normally expire in about 10 days, and are not set at all if you do not access any password-protected content. Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC.). There are several ways to arrange such a clutch, but the common object is to create a mechanical connection between the engine and the transmission input shaft (which otherwise is driven by the fluid clutchs turbine(s)). The lockup clutch control valve, not pictured, allows pressurized oil to enter the clutch cylinder through a hollow passage within the input shaft, pushing the pressure plate (colored red, like the torus cover and impeller it rotates with) into the engaged position. For comparison, a four-speed Wilson pre-selector has four planetary gearsets, four sets of brake bands, and a cone clutch, which is a lot of pieces. Second, the nonlinear relationship between impeller and turbine speed can be troublesome. .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to The Vimeo Cookie Policy also provides information about how Vimeo users can control the use of third-party analytics and/or advertising cookies in connection with embedded Vimeo video players. This has been a quick jaunt through world of torque converters, but it should at least inspire some intelligent questions to ask your converter company of choice as to the best converter for your application. At stall speed, the impeller is spinning at engine rpm and the turbine is stopped. Do you want them slipping when driving? These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? The only problem - there's a boat-load of information and I only know how to interpret a fraction of it. (For more information about our discontinuation of Google Analytics tracking on this website, see the "Online Tracking" section of the Privacy Policy. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. Generally, by the time you reach the 60-foot mark on the dragstrip, torque multiplication is effectively eliminated and the turbine and impeller speeds are close to achieving what converter manufacturers call coupling speed. That isnt true of a fluid clutch, whose torus members are free to rotate at different speeds. With a manual transmission, you are allowed the freedom to pick the starting-line rpm you want to apply when you dump the clutch. Overdrive ratios drive the torque converter at speeds generally below normal coupling speed, creating increased slippage and heat, which is unacceptable. To resolve the issue, I have reduce the desired slip to 10 rpm in 3-6th gear and increased the + side of the apply ramp table by about 10% across the board and up to 30% in the slip rpm of 2-12. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. With a plate clutch, that effect is often quite pronounced, especially in a reduction gear, because of the mechanical connection between the engine flywheel and the transmission input shaft; neither can overrun the other. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. 3. and 5. This viscous connection is transmission fluid. However, Wilson gearboxes were quite bulky and complex because the nature of their operation required a separate set of epicyclic gears for each ratio, including reverse. This is not a huge factor in the overall lower-e.t. The second thing to look for is a lot of slippage between Desired and Actual readings for the TCC in Forscan. So far the bogging down hasn't happened since last week. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. However, that did not cure the shuddering problem. its the mechanically controlled aod. For one, the engine would stall every time the vehicle came to a halt with the lockup clutch engaged unless the driver shifted to neutral each time. I agree that a manual transmission option would be great. That's because torque converters transfer the power your car engine makes to the transmission in your car. A forum community dedicated to Ford Power Stroke owners and enthusiasts. Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. Estimate Converter Slip. (author diagram). 1. and 2. 2. I had unlimited tow loaded and he thought maybe it wasn't playing nice with my trans. It's all about creating an overall tuned package that complements the rest of your car. But Ive never heard of anyone going that route. If the fluid becomes contaminated, anything that uses and relies on the fluid can be damaged. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I changed the transmission fluid (Mercon LV) at 63k miles back in 2017. The mount on the transmission side (under the battery) was severely damaged, the rubber legs inside the bushing were torn through and was allowing a lot of engine movement. Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. How exactly are you measuring how much the tc is slipping? There is going to be some slip. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Sep 16, 2013 #11 4 In a car with a good suspension and sticky tires, you can use extra rpm to put the engine closer to its torque peak, launching the car even more quickly. Second, consider draining and filling the transmission a few times since you can't get all the fluid out with just one drain/fill cycle. The torque converter of the future will have a carefully tuned control strategy, which takes into account the torque demands of each vehicle. With automated hydraulic operation and combinations of brakes and clutches, it was possible to get the same results more efficiently. Advertising - There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. If you correctly enter the password, the site saves this cookie on your device to allow you access to the password-protected post or page. Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. As these vehicles age, diagnosing these issues can become more challenging. When starting, the fluid clutchs driving torus (the impeller) may reach a speed of 2,000 rpm or more before the driven torus (the turbine) begins to move at all, a point known as stall. The Vimeo Cookie Policy does not currently disclose the normal durations of the cookies and similar technologies the Vimeo platform uses, but it appears that some may remain in your browser (or other user agent) for as long as your settings permit. Utimately, I installed a recycled transmission from a junk yard and a remanufactured torque converter from Ford. Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post Trailer Towing, Other; Brakes, Electrical, Hitches, Weight Distribution & CDL Discussion, Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L), Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels, Explorer, Sport Trac, Mountaineer & Aviator, 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1980 - 1986 Bullnose F100, F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1957 - 1960 F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks, 1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis, Nite, Nascar & Other Limited Edition Ford Trucks, Supercharger, Turbocharger, Nitrous Oxide & Water/Methanol Injection, Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W), Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460), FE & FT Big Block V8 (332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428), 335 Series- 5.8/351M, 6.6/400, 351 Cleveland, Y-Block V8 (239, 272, 292, 312, 317, 341, 368), Audio & Video Systems, Navigation, Satellite Radio & Mobile Electronics, Bed Covers, Tonneau covers, Toppers/Canopies & Bed liners, Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels, Fuel Injection, Carburetion & Fuel System, Vendor Specials, Discounts, Product Announcements & Group Buys, ? When you experience fluid leaks, you aren't retaining the amount of transmission fluid; the torque converter needs to transfer the power from the engine to the transmission. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. To fix the problem, you need to discover the seal that's damaged and have it replaced. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. If the payment button is visible, it may set the third-party cookies PYPF (via paypalobjects.com, which is owned by PayPal, Inc.), which appears to check whether or not you are a logged-in PayPal user, possibly to facilitate the PayPal user login process, and/or 01A1 (via abmr.net, which is owned by Akamai Technologies), which stores certain technical information about your device and browser (or other user agent), possibly to facilitate the login and shopping cart functions. Most Torque Converters today also use a friction clutch to lock up the converter at higher speeds to create more fuel efficiency and less slip. The TCC solenoid regulates the fluid pressure to the clutch. All site content Copyright 2007-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); FordFlex.net FordFlex.net is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b42f522a79 Hydraulic slippage also offers some advantages during acceleration: As with a plate clutch, a certain amount of slip makes for a much smoother takeoff. A multi-disc clutch can lock that carrier to the front sun gear, which is also attached to the rear brake drum (dark red). Some iterations of the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DG started in first gear, but early transmissions started in second unless the driver manually selected Low. Wilson pre-selectors were pretty well established technology, although not common, by the late 30s. First, that slip wastes some fuel youre paying for more engine revolutions (and more power) than reach the driveshaft. It will read really high numbers until the converter is locked. I purchased my car 3 weeks ago from a new car dealership.. The wire chaffing is a definite possibility. This is how the first fluid couplings were designed, but they were hideously inefficient because of high slippage. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. The wp-donottrack_feed cookie, which controls a blog feed, was set by accessing the dashboard menu for the WP DoNotTrack plugin (which we do not currently use on this website); this cookie normally expires in about one year. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. They normally expire in just under one year, but you can delete the cookies in your browser (or other user agent) at any time. Whether it will add to my working knowledge is debatable, but my brain will benefit from the workout. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. Think of a lock TC as the clutches in your tranny. (author diagram). Performance & security by Cloudflare. Sure, there's all kind of talk about stall speed, slippage, and lockup features, but some gearheads secretly believe there's as much voodoo to a torque converter as there is science. Twice last week, when I came up to a stop light, the engine bogged down to 400rpm then recovered back to normal idle. I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. I believe that the drive train motion could be perceived as a "shudder" especially under high torque/high load conditions. To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. by Silver Flex SEL. another masterpiece. Fluid clutches also dont allow much engine braking. The turbine has a spline that attaches to the transmission input shaft, which connects to the internal parts of the transmission to shift gears and provide power to the wheels. The torque converter is so essential to the global car market theres a global torque converter market. There are tried and true methods for fixing the five common torque converter issues. Cookie Policy - You also need to move forward with viable options that will help you get your torque converter fixed. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? New to the site and found it because of this read. Post Come join the discussion about diesel performance, modifications, EGR deletes, troubleshooting, lift kits, tires, wheels, maintenance, and more! by SirHandyMan Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm, Post Part 3 of 3 High Performance Academy Sonnax and SIU - Mega Torque. Introduced for the 1950 model year, Studebakers Automatic Drive was developed in partnership with Borg-Warner and was more broadly known as the DG series, after the Borg-Warner Detroit Gear Division that did much of the development work. By changing the angle of the impeller blades, the torque-converter manufacturer can create a converter that generates a given stall speed with a certain torque multiplication. I switched from a junk converter slipping that much to a tight well built version and picked up .3 and 4mph behind a healthy smallblock (10.2's at 127mph) Cookies whose names begin with "optimizely" are associated with the Optimizely digital experience platform (which is subject to the Optimizely Privacy Policy; the "Privacy" section of the Optimizely Trust Center provides additional information about Optimizely privacy practices, including a link to the Data Processing Agreement that applies to personal data the Optimizely services process on customers' behalf that may be subject to certain regional privacy and/or data protection laws, while their "Cookies and localStorage in the Optimizely snippet" help page provides additional technical information about the cookies and/or similar technologies used by that platform).
Return Of Immortal Emperor Cultivation Levels, Articles T